Regina Gleeson has been in e-mail
conversation with Cliodhna Shaffrey, an independent curator currently
working on a curatorial residency with Visual Leitrim.
This edited interview is an accompaniment to an article in issue
109 of CIRCA Art Magazine. The interview took place between June
and July, 2004.
Helen O'Leary and Paul Chidester: Silage
- Leitrim bales and townlands, artists book, Mermaid Turbulence,
2003; courtesy Cliodhna Shaffrey; O'Leary and Chidester are
collaborating with Shaffrey as part of Visual Leitrim
From your experience, what importance
does location play in the success or failure of an exhibition?
I suppose the simple answer is sometimes
location is central to an exhibition's success or failure, other
times the location plays a background role. Take for example the
growing number of biennials and major international art shows
based on themed subjects such as 'nomadism', 'cities on the move',
'migration', 'virtual space', 'non-space'. The particular
host city doesn't hold a monopoly on the theme, but it can offer
certain readings, be a centre of discourse and draw large audiences.
Experiencing the work in this context differs from experiencing
it in a local setting where there may be less critical enquiry,
but a more intimate reading.
Today contemporary arts practice sees
a proliferation of approaches: - the artist's engagement with
the real world;the processes of making bound up with production
/ exhibition; and the collapse of art into life: a revival in
painting and the continual exploration of new media. Location
begins to takes on different meanings and new possibilities. We
no longer have to think of location as a fixed physical site,
a geographical location or 'architectural setting'; location can
also include virtual space, social space, lived space (Lebfevre),
and it can be a means of social exchange, interaction and cultural
debate.
"The artists-subject, liberated
from the enduring ties of local circumstances" (Miwon Kwon,
The wrong place, Art Journal, Spring 2000), bound
neither by object or site, presents new locations for aesthetic
experience and exhibition.
You are working on the curation of
a very exciting exhibition that is built around the physical,
social, functional, emotional and conceptual aspect of Dún
Laoghaire harbour, but some of the artists you have elected to
work with are from half way around the globe. Networks of human
psychological connections grow irrespective of geographical location
but, specific to cultural expression, would this be possible if
we were not well versed in global issues and the language of globalisation?
Being versed in global issues and language
does open up possibilities for connection to the wider world and
we probably think we understand each other better. We have the
means for easy and instant communication via e-mail and internet.
Globalisation impacts on visual culture - which is well versed
in its systems, embraces its technology and both reflects
and resists its message. Our present times, what Marc Angé
terms 'super modern' as opposed to 'post modern', can be categorized
by an excess of time, of space and of individuality. The planet
is shrinking and a saturation of images has meant that even if
we have never been in certain parts of the world, we can fool
ourselves into thinking that we might know these places. My friend
from the North told me that when he went away on holidays and
told people where he was from, they would respond with two words,
'boom boom'. Of course Northern Ireland for him was a totally
different place and he didn't share their 'experience' of it.
The gap between the mediated image and lived experience remains,
but that doesn't mean that we cannot relate to nor have empathy
with the other's situation. After all we share 'being' in common.
Peter Lasch: 666666 36 signs and
a panorrama (work in progress), 2004; towards an exhibition
of new work by seven artists, Carlisle Pier, Dún Laoghaire,
2005
The Dún Laoghaire project involves
seven artists making new work for the old ferry terminal on the
Carlisle Pier. Three are from Ireland (Patricia McKenna, Gary
Coyle and Garreth Phelan) and four from elsewhere - Mexico (Peter
Lasch); Croatia (Goran Petercol) and Israel (Isaac Layish and
Irit Garty). The fact that artists come from countries where the
border has been or is a site of conflict and contestation is interesting,
given the fact that the terminal might be considered a threshold
or border site. The Ferry Terminal was once the main entrance
and exit point into and out of Ireland and, given our history
of economic migration to England, the ferry terminal might be
considered as site of melancholia but also of possibility and
freedom. In addition, the harbour and its vicinity have connections
with Joyce, Beckett and Marconi, which makes it a rich context.
I wanted it to be open to a range of artistic interpretations
and not be bound to the specifics of this place. Artists from
elsewhere could relate to the broader issues a site like this
carries.
Christine Mackey: Work in progress
(provisional), graphite and scotch tape on board, 2003;
courtesy Cliodhna Shaffrey; Mackey is collaborating with Shaffrey
as part of Visual Leitrim
What value or hindrance do you see
in cultural categorisation by nationality?
I would say that culturally, classification
by nationality or for that matter race or gender is reductive
and limiting. We might be born in Ireland, be white and be Irish
but feel black - like the fellow in The Commitments - Jimmy
Rabbit. We might be born elsewhere and be living in Ireland for
a long time and feel neither Irish nor of the country of our birth.
Any attempt to define 'pureness' or essentialist qualities of
nationality can be dangerous. But condemning national values can
be a complex matter, depending on the place one might be in.
How do you feel about the curatorial
move away from the sterile black cube / white cube model, away
from objects in vitrines and away from cordoning off the outside?
I
am excited by trends in contemporary art practices and the kind
of opportunities that artist are making for themselves - operating
within the rifts, vaults, fissures of the 'real' world. My image
of the contemporary artist is that of a wart - he / she / they
who can attach themselves to all sorts of possibilities within
the quotidian. The Duchampian effect, the impact of the neo-avant-garde
movements and collapse of art into life presents infinite ways
of making and showing art. But I expect the white cube or black
cube will continue to play its role and will adapt to the changing
artistic practice. Artists will always need galleries and galleries
are important to artists. I for one enjoy going to the galleries.
What's positive about now is the plurality of approaches that
can feed the imagination. Everything seems possible, the universe
is ripe with suggestion and the gallery is only one destination
for art.
We are aware of the vices of materialistic
commodification, first- and third-world economic imbalances, the
money-driven art market's lack of love for art, environmental
devastation, ethnic cleansing, the dangers of genetic modification,
the potential disasters of human cloning - the list goes on. Do
you feel a responsibility to represent any particular truth of
our time in teasing out solutions in visual expression?
I am only starting out in my 'career'
as a freelance curator, so I'm not comfortable about calling myself
a curator. Before this I was an arts officer and I did a stint
with the Arts Council where my brief was with local authorities.
So I don't think I'll be starting off by tackling the larger issues
head on. I might find it difficult to tease out in a visual way
what you call 'the particular truths of our time' and not avoid
a moralistic or didactic tone. Ethnic cleansing is always wrong,
but GM foods, or the money-driven art market's lack of love for
art presents more complex subject matter. I'm interested in the
'smaller things' that filter into and are apart of 'our being
in the world', certain patterns of living, everyday habits, sense
of humour. I'd hope in some way, by coming in the back door, that
the work I might be involved in as a curator and in collaboration
with artists is made with the view that the world matters.
Can you talk a little bit about the
manner in which you, as a curator, approach the balance and imbalance
between art with a social conscience and art about aesthetics?
I don't think that it is helpful to distinguish
between art with a social conscience and art about aesthetics.
They are not different sides of a coin. Many of today's artists
are interested in making art as if the world matters, be that
in the form of provocation, performance or material aesthetic.
For many artists who are engaged in practice that is based on
social conscience the aesthetic aspect remains central to their
expression, for others the aesthetic aspect diminishes.
As a curator and from
my experience with local authorities I have mostly been engaged
in a practice outside of conventional gallery or museum space;
as such a lot of the work I've been involved in could broadly
be defined as having a social conscience as oppose to 'art-for-art's
sake', but I think that most artists today would say their art
has a conscience - even if we disagree with that conscience. As
a curator, I wouldn't worry about getting the balance right because
I don't see art about aesthetics and art with a social conscience
as being polar opposites.
Anyone who has seen even ten minutes
of American psycho-babble TV will know that in order to 'find'
ourselves we have to 'lose' ourselves. Applying this theory to
art, do you think we are a little lost in the cultural expression
of this place and time, i.e. Ireland in 2004?
Ireland's changed dramatically over the
last number of years. I think it was Fintan O'Toole who wrote
that"Ireland was never a modern country; the Celtic
Tiger kicked it right from a traditional one into a post-modern
one." Now in the aftermath of the Celtic Tiger, when
the dust has settled and we've gotten used to the cappuccinos,
it's possible to see what's been lost in all our gain - levels
of trust, patience, neighbourliness - those precious qualities,
beyond commodification. Ireland in 2004 is a bit lost, but losing
oneself is a necessary part of finding oneself.
John Byrne: Dublin's Last Supper,
2004, photograph screen-printed onto vitreous enamel, 220
x 930 cm; courtesy Cliodhna Shaffrey; more information on
the artwork here;
project curated by Cliodhna Shaffrey
Applying this theory to art, you could
say that art often reaches a crisis point before it finds itself
again - 'death of painting' and 'the end of art' are two slogans
that come to mind, but painting doesn't die, art doesn't end,
this is the cyclical story of art. As far Ireland goes, there
are lots of small great things happening in visual arts all over
the country - the annual Claremorris Exhibition; Carlow's Visual
Arts programme; Sarah Pierce's Metropolitan Complex
- a newssheet and forum for discussion; Ballymun's Breaking
Ground; Garreth Phelan's taking over of a flat in Dublin to
produce his work based on collective belief systems (Now Here);
Cork Arts Collective's on-going presence on the periphery of Cork
city; the long established ev+a in Limerick, and
Leitrim has a resident curator (me) and there is ample room for
more. I don't think we are lost here, maybe we are finding our
way. But, high capitalism, an emphasis on material possessions
and the promotion of the individual over community has implications
for the arts and cultural sector; people's lifestyles change -
they are working harder, shop more, are tired and have less time
to give, and then, there is more choice. While the breaking down
of barriers between 'high' art and 'low' art and the influence
of multi-ethnic communities support other expressions and add
flavour, one worries if, outside of the hyped events, people's
active engagement and involvement in the arts is waning.
What about this function of being
a keeper or guardian in charge of something...are you a keeper
or guardian? What material and, more interestingly, immaterial
thing do you want to guard (if at all) and for whom?
I don't see myself as a guardian of anything
material. I hope that I can take care and give support to the
artists I work with; that's the only kind of guardianship I'd
like to do. But this is a two-lane system; the artists guard me
too.
Anna MacLeod with glass sculpture Britannia
rules the waves, 1999; courtesy Cliodhna Shaffrey; MacLeod
is collaborating with Shaffrey as part of Visual Leitrim
Interdisciplinary arts practices have
led to multifaceted collaborations in fine art and research as
art practice itself is commonplace in fine art. Today's art practice
is flexible and sometimes sees the artists functioning as everything
and anything but an artist. Do you think the artist of the future
could be a curator?
Certainly, artists make great curators.
It was Damien Hirst (curating Freeze) who got Saatchi
to the Warehouse and started the ball rolling for the YBAs. Artists
who operate as collectives such as PLATFORM (UK) or Ant Farm (USA)
are often involved in curating themselves, and artists are increasingly
interested in finding a space to present their work alongside
fellow artists in a meaningful way. As art is no longer object-bound
there is no end to the role / position the artist can play. What
makes art art is that it "is produced with the intention
that it be art" (Arthur Danto), be that a candy bar (We
Got It, for Culture in Action, Chicago.) or a handshake (Merle
Ukeles - Touch sanitation, New York City). So the artist
can easily turn curator (or anything else for that matter); the
roles are interchangeable.
Cliodhna Shaffrey is an independent
curator currently working as curator in residence with Visual
Leitrim and preparing an international exhibition for Dun
Laoghaire's Carlisle Pier to be held next year.
Regina Gleeson is a writer on
art and technology. She has written a series of articles, collectively
titled Dislocate, renegotiate and flow, for CIRCA issues
107, 108 and 109. You can read the texts of the 107 and 108 articles
here and here
respectively.
